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HMM 21: Saving For Her Freedom With Mabelle Suriel

HMM 21: Saving For Her Freedom With Mabelle Suriel

When you think of investing does it scare you?

Our latest guest on the show went from being a computer science major to finding her love for the stock market.  Somewhere in there Mabelle Suriel’s love for investing started.  In this episode we go behind the scenes and get all the juicy details.

Even though we won’t get into investing advice today you will absolutely love getting to know her, what this freedom was that she was saving for, how she grew up around money and so much more.

**Spoiler alert** I will be having her back on just so she can share her knowledge on investing, so make sure you start writing down your questions.

 

 

What You’ll Learn In Today’s Episode:

  • The one financial challenge she has that makes her feel super uncomfortable
  • Why she chooses to use her credit card over her debit card
  • What saving for her freedom was and why it was important
  • What money book that has forever impacted how she sees and manages her finances

 

Resources From This Episode:

Where to connect with Mabelle:

Girls on the Money Facebook Page

Girls on the Money Community

Girls on the Money Twitter

Mabelle’s favorite money book:

The Automatic Millionaire by David Bach

 

I’m going to challenge you today….we still have 2 months left in 2015, what is THE one thing you can do for your personal finances that will allow you to finish strong?

Is it figuring out where your money is going?  Is it starting a gift savings for the kids birthday parties and holidays?  Is it putting more away a month towards your retirement?  Is it figuring out a way to make more income?

Pick one thing and get to it!  Therefore when the clock strikes 12 on New Year’s Eve you will be overjoyed because you know you have started 2016 financially stronger.  Don’t you want that?

Abrazos (**hugs**),

Jen

 

Click on the arrow below to access the transcript:

Read Full Transcript

EPISODE 21

[INTRO MESSAGE]

[00:00:09] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to the Her Money Matters Podcast, the podcast to help you take control of your finances. Join your host, motivational money coach, Jen Hemphill as she shares with you practical, simple money insights into real life stories by women like you.

Let’s get to it!

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:27] JH: Hey you, it's Jen! It's exciting for me that you are here. You may be listening when you're going on a walk or maybe to break up work, driving in the car, cooking. Whatever it is, I truly appreciate you!

Sometimes I feel like I sound like a broken record because I say it so many times, but I really mean it. That's why I continue saying it. And not only that, I applaud you and not because you're listening to me but rather because of your interest in bettering your personal finance. So I applaud you.

Today I have a fabulous guest for you, and you are going to have so much fun getting to know here. Here are what I thought were the main highlights of my conversation with our guest today. One of the highlights was the one financial challenge that she has that makes her feel super uncomfortable — she shares that. She also shares how she was once a computer science major, and how that led into her love for the stock markets. And why she chooses her credit card over her debit card — she shares all about that. And she talks about what saving for her freedom was for her and why it was important. And she also shares the money book that has forever impacted how she sees and manages her finances.

So let me tell you who she is, who our guest is! So our guest is Mabelle Suriel. So I'll say it — you'll see me say it and pronounce it in Spanish, so just give you a heads up. And Mabel, or "Mabelle" as you'll hear me say, has been passionate about the stock market and investing ever since she took a course during her junior year in college. Before this course she had absolutely no clue what investing was, and she became intrigued immediate with the field and pretty much taught herself everything she currently knows about investing, and of course she continues to learn.

Mabelle bought her very first stock in the middle of the financial crisis in 2008 and has not looked back since. She holds a Bachelor of Science in Finance and an MBA. She's passionate about teaching ladies that investing is something anyone can learn. You don't need any fancy degrees or certifications to do it successfully. If you understand basic math, that is all you really need. That's what she believes.

So now lets go and meet this superstar!

[INTERVIEW]

[00:03:17] JH: Welcome Mabelle to the Her Money Matters Podcast! I'm really excited to have you here.

[00:03:23] MS: Thank you Jen, I'm so excited to be here with you and your awesome listeners.

[00:03:27] JH: Oh, thank you, thank you! Well it was crazy, as we recently connected and I really, what I really loved about you is your interest in all things investing. And plus the fact that you teach women, and focus on teaching women this area was a win-win for me. Because one, for me I love investing but for me personally the research, keeping up to date on all those matters — I like someone else to do that for me. There's just so many things on my brain. I can only take so much.

So I'm really, really excited to introduce you to the Her Money Matters audience. So today we're gonna go ahead and get to know you better. So you ready to dive in?

[00:04:07] MS: I'm ready. Let's do it!

[00:04:09] JH: Awesome, awesome. So Mabelle, or "Mabel" for those of you that don't speak Spanish, cause I know you mentioned to me prior to recording that at work they call you Mabel, so I'm gonna go in between Mabelle and "Mabel". I know you're the professional, we know your awesomeness, so tell me a little bit more about you. You know, the sister, the daughter, maybe the aunt? Tell me a little bit about that side of Mabelle.

[00:04:35] MS: Sure. So well yeah, I was born in the Dominican Republic actually. I moved to the United States when I was 9 years old. So about 20 years ago — 21 years ago.

[00:04:46] JH: Okay.

[00:04:47] MS: Yeah so I live all my life in the Bronx, so it's the part of New York City — I don't know if people are really familiar with it — and I went to school in Albany, New York and then came back home and right now I live on my own in an apartment close to the Westchester area in the Bronx.

I guess in my personal time I love to workout, I enjoy spending time with friends. Like the working out thing is kind of what keeps me focused because you know my work can be stressful sometimes, so you know it's my time to like let the stress go, you know, stuff like that. So yeah, and just spending time, quality time with friends and family and stuff like that.

[00:05:25] JH: Awesome, awesome. And I like that you workout. I'm big into working out and you and I, even though I'm a little older than you, we moved to the States at the same — I was 8, but it was more than 20 years ago. [Both laugh]

[00:05:38] MS: Around the same age either way, so that's cool.

[00:05:40] JH: Yeah we moved around the same age. It's just, I've been here a little bit longer. So tell me about how you grew up around money? So I know you have an interest in investing, but it came from somewhere. So tell me about how you grew up around money, what were the family dynamics as far as the discussions, if there were any money conversations, those types of things? Let us know about that.

[00:06:02] MS: Sure. So to be honest, growing up, like my family — my parents — never really talked to me about specific any tips about money management or anything like that. I think most of what I learned growing up was from observing my dad and his actions towards money. So he's always been pretty cautious and pretty serious about his credit score and how he managed his own finances. So I always remember hearing him say, you know, "I never want to have a balance on my credit card," and even just mentioning it to my mom, "You know, make sure you pay that in full, don't have any debt just lingering." And you know, stuff like that.

And then when I was like, I think I was 17, right before I went away to college he actually took me to a bank to open my first bank account. And he became a co-signer, you know how those type — you're really young so they don't give you a credit card...

[00:06:54] JH: Right.

[00:06:55] MS: ...on your name specifically. So what he did was — I don’t know what company he used, but he put his, I guess as a co-signer or something? I don’t know, is that the right word for it?

[00:07:07] JH: Yeah, he co-signed or added you to the account.

[00:07:09] MS: Yeah, so a credit card account. So you know, I think — I don’t know if he had faith in me or whatever, but he did say, "You know, if you need this for emergencies, use it and let me know." But it wasn't really direct advice. It was just me observing him. And then when it got to a point that I got older her kind of gave me the tools to go forward. But that was it.

[00:07:29] JH: Well that's actually a lot. I mean they talked to you about not getting into debt, and the actions that he took as far as managing his money, you were able to observe that. So sounds like they set a good example for you.

[00:07:42] MS: They did yeah. Even if maybe they didn't realize, or maybe they were doing it intentionally, but they definitely — yeah I guess they definitely did.

[00:07:49] JH: Right, because — and you don't have kids, and I'm sure that you've seen it — no matter how young the kids are, they see what the parents are doing and the parents are setting an example so early on and they just observe and are able to, you know, they start doing what their parents are doing essentially.

[00:08:09] MS: That's true yea.

[00:08:10] JH: And tell me, what would you say is the best money advice you've received?

[00:08:16] MS: I think the best money advice, it came from a book I would say. When I was around 21, and I guess I could say from my dad and a book together. But it's was — it's pretty simple, but it's to save and to save young. I don't know if it's in my nature just to be a saver and that's why I kind of took that advice to heart and naturally did do that for the past like, since I started working officially like 10-11 years ago? But I think that was the main thing I learned early on was to save and save early.

[00:08:51] JH: Okay, awesome. And when — I meant to ask a little earlier — when did your interest in investing come?

[00:08:59] MS: Okay so this is pretty, I would say it was kind of random because I went into college my freshman year with the mentality that I would be a computer science major.

[00:09:07] JH: Oh wow!

[00:09:08] MS: [Laughs]

[00:09:08] JH: Different!

[00:09:09] MS: Yeah, but that only lasted a semester or even half a semester because quite honestly, I took that first computer science 101 class and I had no idea what I was doing. So pretty much half through the semester I dropped the class and I felt really sad and discouraged because to be honest, like that was, I feel that I — I was growing up in the up-and-coming time where like the .com thing was going on and all that. So I wanted to be part of that. So I was devastated when I realized, "You know, this is really not for me. I don't understand it, so I have to find another field."

So one of my advisors told me, "You know, try out the business school and see if you find the classes interesting. And see if you like it." So I went to the business school and I liked the classes, I liked math since I was younger, so I enjoyed them. Accounting was one of my hardest classes, but somehow by some miracle — I always tell people it was like a miracle of God that I passed my accounting classes! [Both laugh]

And then after all that, I actually took a — my junior year of college I took an investing, not investing, it was a finance called I think, "Investment Management" or something like that. And that's when we started diving into stocks, specifically. And I was amazed! I was like, "Wow, you can really make money by owning part of companies." I was starstruck I guess you can say.

So I was like, "Wow, this is awesome!" So that's when my — and I always think about in the past, have I even heard about the stock market? And to be honest, I don't remember having any interest or even knowing much about the stock market before I took that class. So that's when I guess my interests woke up at that point.

[00:10:49] JH: That's awesome. And I know you mentioned you're a good saver and would that be what you would say, in regards to what you do well with money, or is there something else that you feel that you're really good at with money?

[00:11:03] MS: I would say that and a combination of that and putting money to work. So basically yeah, so basically I believe in having an emergency fund a 100% and having money away for emergencies and anything that comes up. Like not all your money can be tied up in investments, but I do feel that I do a good job putting — the money that I do want to invest, I think I do a good job managing that. So I think that would be one of the things that I do best.

[00:11:31] JH: Awesome, awesome. Well of course we all have challenges with money. What would you say your challenge is?

[00:11:37] MS: I would say — I was thinking about this question when I saw it, and I would say it's being overly frugal or cheap, whatever you wanna call it. I feel that, I don’t know if it's something that I picked up growing up because you know we didn't have a lot of money when I was younger when we came from the Dominican Republic to this country.

We struggled at first, so I don't know if it comes from that but even though I do enjoy going out with friends and stuff like that, sometimes I have a problem spending money and kind of — like for example people go out for drinks and to eat all the time. Like I have a problem doing that. I try to do that maybe once a month or once every couple of months. But it makes me feel a little uncomfortable, cause we should enjoy life and enjoy whatever comes in.

So I would like to eventually not feel that way about money. Because I feel like I've read all these books about how money's abundant and we should, whatever goes...

[00:12:48] JH: That mindset.

[00:12:49] MS: Yeah, comes back. So I think that would be one of my challenges. And also having a little bit like, I guess, yeah like I guess insecurity about letting my money go from time to time I guess.

[00:13:02] JH: right. And I feel you because I've been there. Because I have been the saver, I still am, but with my husband he's kind of balanced me out because he's "the spender" and it's helped in a sense that I realize that knowing that he we was a spender that I was a saver that I was like, "No, no, we can't!" For whatever reason I was like wanting to hold onto the money all the time. "No, we just can't spend that on," whatever it was the case may be.

And I've struggled with that for a long time, and really what I found about that, why I was doing that, it just came from my upbringing and it was that with my family it was a humble background. So my parents, I always remember hearing, "We don't have enough money," or that type of thing. So I realized for me that it was that, that I was afraid to not have enough money. So I would just like, "Okay, we can't spend it."

But of course, like you said, there's gotta be a balance, you've got to enjoy life, you can't take the money with you when you go. So you definitely have a good balance. But yes, I completely relate to that because I have had that.

[00:14:18] MS: Alright, I feel better now. I'm not alone in the world! [Laughs]

[00:14:20] JH: No you're not! And I have also found that with women that tend to be savers, that that's the case with them. And again, and especially with some of the interviews that I've done, I've seen that trend where it's like they're the savers and then they are frugal as well.

[00:14:39] MS: Yeah, yeah!

[00:14:40] JH: And I see that same trend. So it's interesting. And tell me about, as far as your spending habits, do you use cash, check, or credit? What's your most favorite way of paying?

[00:14:54] MS: My favorite way of paying is credit cards, and that's gonna sound weird I guess based on my background. But the reason why I like credit cards is because of the points that it gives. Like a couple things, one is the points and also the protection that they come with. You know, if anything happens, somebody steals your credit card number at least the money involved is not your money, it's the banks money. So you know, they could figure it out what happened to it. But then you know, if it's my debit card it's like, "Oh my gosh, it's my mom. Like what happened?" Even though there's always that protection anyway with the banks, but still.

And also the points. I love to travel, but I like to do it as frugally as possible. So I've used my points to go to different places and I've been able to get my plane ticket way less than a regular price for example. So I pretty much try to collect as much points as possible for travelling. So yeah that's why I use my credit card for the most part.

[00:15:53] JH: Right, and I hear ya. I know a lot of people that go, "Oh no, but the credit card!" I think really, and I'm sure you'll agree with me — or I think would agree with me — it really all depends on yourself and your spending habits. And you know that, I'm sure that you've paid off at the end of the month, you know you're probably tracking your expenses so you know how much you spend and you know that you're able to pay it at the end of the month. And some people, if they don't have the control I guess, you can say that — that might not be the best word — maybe the credit card's not best for them. But also the credit card it also good just to see cause they give you those charts, "Oh you've spent this portion on food," it's a good gauge, a good picture. Your bank, depending on the bank, your bank can do that too. But it's a good picture of your spending habits as well, and you can track that with a credit card. But yeah, but like you said, the protection is definitely better than a debit card.

[00:16:53] MS: Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:53] JH: So there's, you know, those gotta way and balance. You've gotta look at yourself and see, "Okay, how well is a credit card work for me?" Cause I'm not against it, I know for example like Dave Ramsey is definitely not pro-credit card. [Laughs] But I'm not against it, but I'm also, you have to really know yourself, your spending habits, those types of things.

[00:17:16] MS: I agree. And I think like you said, everybody's different so everybody has to know what works for them. Like for some people, you know, some people can get carried away so maybe they should stick to debit or cash just to get things under control. But then other people, I personally feel I'm comfortable. When sometimes my credit card bill is like over $1,000, I freak out. So I'm like, "No I can't!" So I'm one of those people. But you know, everybody is very different and everybody can do what works for them and be successful at it. You just have to know yourself.

[00:17:47] JH: Absolutely, absolutely. And tell me about your proudest money moment?

[00:17:52] MS: Yes, okay so I don’t know, I don't think I mentioned this before at the beginning of the interview? So basically after I graduated from college, instead of going into a finance — I wanted to be like a stock broker right away. You know, that was like my dream. Like, "Oh my gosh, this is what I wanna be." But what happened was that I ended up getting a job offer from an insurance company even before, like my first semester of my senior year. So it was a very well-known insurance company here in the States and I told myself, "You know what? Let me just take this job. It's 100% guaranteed, let me just do this for like a year or so and then I'll move on to what I really wanna do." Well a year turned into 9 years! [Laughs]

[00:18:38] JH: Oh my goodness!

[00:18:38] MS: Yes! I was insurance for 9 years and every year I was thinking, "Oh my gosh, like next year I'm done and next year I'm moving on." But I got comfortable and it didn't happen, but what I was doing though on my free time and even whenever I had a chance because I'm obsessed with investing, [Both laugh] was you know, I would educate myself, I'd read about it, do it myself. I studied an MBA degree throughout working in insurance. So I would go to school during the evenings and then during the day I would work my regular job.

[00:19:13] JH: Wow.

[00:19:14] MS: So, but during all this time I was preparing myself to switch careers. I told myself, you know, "At one point or another," I don't wanna be 50, 60 years old or whatever and wake up and tell myself, "Wow, I've been in insurance for 40, 50 years, an industry that," you know, I'm grateful for all that I learned, but it still wasn't something that I wanted...

[00:19:35] JH: It wasn't your passion.

[00:19:36] MS: No not at all. You know, I'm grateful for the friendships that I made and everything, but yeah it wasn't where my heart was. So I was, like I told you I'm a big saver, so I just saved as much as I could. Even though I had school to worry about and expenses, I ended up getting an apartment in the middle of all of that. So I had all these expenses, but I was saving for — you know how some people save for like a house or a car? I was saving for my freedom! [Laughs]

[00:20:02] JH: That is awesome!

[00:20:03] MS: I guess I could say, I guess the best way I could explain is, "So I'm gonna have a cushion so that when I'm ready to make the leap out, whatever happens that'll be okay." So last year I finally finished my MBA degree in May.

[00:20:19] JH: Congrats!

[00:20:19] MS: Thank you so much. I can't even remember how I got through that. It was like four years of struggle. [Laughs]

[00:20:25] JH: Well that's a lot. I mean working and an MBA, hello! That is, I can't imagine.

[00:20:31] MS: I couldn't even tell you how in the world that happened.

[00:20:35] JH: You just did it! [Both laugh]

[00:20:36] MS: I just did it! So I decided to quit my job in corporate insurance and it scary, I have to be honest with you. I ended up, what happened was I got an internship with a company in investing for that summer, right after graduation. So it's actually the company that I work for now as an analyst. I get to work from home for them, which is pretty cool.

[00:20:56] JH: That's awesome.

[00:20:57] MS: Which it turned out good, thank god. But when I quit that job it was scary and I even told my parents, and I think they had faith in me and they didn't really tell me anything like, "What are you doing?" I could sense it. You know how Latino families are! You know?

[00:21:13] JH: Yes!

[00:21:14] MS: Like, "What do you mean? Where are you going? Like you have a job. Like do it."

[00:21:18] JH: Right, right. The stability.

[00:21:19] MS: Yeah, like I could really sense that maybe that's what they were thinking. But I was like, "You know I kind of owe it to myself to like try this out and see what the future holds for me." And so, I guess bringing it back to the question, which I kind of deterred from! My proudest money moment was the fact that I was able to walk out, walk away from that job and pursue my dreams without any fear.

[00:21:46] JH: That is beautiful. I mean it takes determination, obviously hard work, which you definitely put in and just the discipline that you had. So that is awesome. So kudos and congrats to you.

[00:21:58] MS: Thank you.

[00:21:59] JH: And tell me, like about your favorite money book?

[00:22:04] MS: Okay so it is a book I recommend every time somebody asks me this question. It's the "Automatic Millionaire", by David Black I think is name is?

[00:22:14] JH: Yes! Yes, yes I have that. And he has various versions; for women, for couples, for I don't know I think even probably business owners. I think it's the same concept that he teaches, he just kind of tweaks the book a little bit.

[00:22:28] MS: Yeah I think so. I agree. But yeah the first book I ever read was that one, and I read that book when I was 21 and I think that's where it, like I mentioned earlier that my best money advise, where it came from. I think it came from that book. Like I think even if I didn't realize it, I think it kind of like brain washed me in a good way [Both laugh] about, you know, start early and try to invest early and save early. So I think yeah, that's definitely my favorite book on personal finance by far.

[00:22:54] JH: It's a good one, it's a good one. Basically the key was, obviously starting early and automating. Automation.

[00:23:02] MS: Definitely, yes.

[00:23:02] JH: Automation, automation. It's huge. It's such a time saver too.

[00:23:06] MS: It is, yes.

[00:23:06] JH: So Mabelle, as you know this podcast is all about making money simple and taking control of it. How would you finish this sentence? Her money matters because _____.

[00:23:18] MS: Because you owe it to yourself to live the life of your dreams.

[00:23:23] JH: Love it, love it! Well that was fun Mabelle. I'm so happy I got to introduce you to the Her Money Matters audience. And I'd like, if you are game, to have you back so you can share your expertise. Cause today we got to know you and know about your story, but I'd really love to have your expertise and tips about investing and things, you know, because you focus on women! So I definitely would love to have you back. So if you're game, I would love to. Sound good?

[00:23:55] MS: Yeah Jen, that's what I wanted! I'm so excited about this, because that's what I wanna do. I wanna get the word our there that, you know, people think it's complicated, it's too much work. Like I wanna show all the women out there that it's not and that they can do it too. So I'll be more than happy to be back on your show.

[00:24:10] JH: Awesome, awesome! So we'll set that up. And tell us, where is the best place for people to find you and learn more about you?

[00:24:19] MS: Well I think for now, I guess Facebook. Well you can find me through my Facebook page I guess; Facebook.com/girlsonthemoney. Or through email as well, anybody out there that wants to reach out or say hello, girlsonthemoney@gmail.com. Oh actually, Twitter, yeah @GirlsOnTheMoney.

[00:24:43] JH: Okay. Well I'll be sure to post those links. And I know you have, if I can say, a Facebook group.

[00:24:52] MS: Yes, yeah.

[00:24:53] JH: And I'll make sure to put that, cause she gives some great tips. And I know I follow you on Instagram, so you've got tips — but I'll just make sure to link those up in the show notes for people to find you. So again, thank you so much Mabelle for being here, for sharing about you. It's fun getting to know you, and I'm telling you, I've been talking to millennials and you all millennials really are just rockstars for sure.

[00:25:18] MS: [Both laugh] Thank you Jen. I really appreciate it! Thank you for having me.

[00:25:21] JH: No thank you so much, and we'll go ahead and set up, afterwards, another time to talk.

[00:25:27] MS: Alright! Cool, sounds good.

[00:25:28] JH: Alright thanks.

[00:25:29] MS: Bye-bye.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[00:25:30] JH: Well that was an awesome conversation with Mable, or as I say, "Mabelle". I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. And I wanted to tell you real quick, and share with you this story cause recently I did some sessions where I didn't charge anything. It was just a limited amount of sessions but the idea of this was just for me to give back because I like to, and t'is the season to be giving. Right? To be generous! So that's one of the reasons I did that.

And also I wanted to do this to help you finish strong in 2015. We know money can be overwhelming, it can be stressful, and I wanted to alleviate that as much as I could. So in these sessions, what we did was, we discussed the challenges, I gave some action steps to take just based on what was pressing, most pressing for the individual. And I had this one particular call with this beautiful lady and I had it on a Friday. Okay that's the key thing; I had it on a Friday, and by Sunday she already had emailed me what she had gotten done, which was a significant portion of what I challenged with you, I kid you not!

And it really completely made my week, and I know she doesn't want me to mention her name, but you know who you are! I wanted to celebrate you, give you a shout-out on all what you got accomplished. You immediately just took action and that is just awesome. And just so you know that I truly believe in you, I know you can do this, and you're going to accomplish so much more. Sometimes for any of us it just takes a little bit of guidance, a point in the right direction, some accountability, and that is all I did in these sessions.

So personal finance in general is not hard, we just make it that way cause of everything else we've got going on in that head of ours, it just kind of fogs up everything. So just having someone to point us in the right direction and hold us accountable makes a huge, huge difference.

I wanted to challenge you with something today, speaking of these sessions that I did, speaking of that we only have — or we still have, I should say. Not only, but we still have two months left in 2015. I wanted to challenge you with asking yourself, "What is that one thing, just one thing — what is that one thing you can do for your personal finances that is gonna allow you to finish strong?" Is it figuring out where your money's going? Is it starting that savings account where you put money in for gifts that you've been wanting to do, so that way you go — one of your kids has a birthday party, or the holidays come about, it's just easier to shop for the gifts because the money's there? Is it maybe putting away more money towards your retirement? Or is it figuring out a way to make more income? What is that one thing for you? It could be something else that I didn't mention?

So when the clock strikes midnight on New Year's Eve, what is that one thing that will make you happy you did because you know that will mean that 2016 you'll be starting even stronger with your money? One of the ways that will help you gain that clarity so you can figure out where your money is going, so you can start that savings account for the gifts that I mentioned, so you can put more money away for retirement, so you can figure out how much more income you need to live on — to live the life actually. Not live on, but live the life that you want, is my "Jumpstart Your Money" mini-guide.

That is just definitely one way that you can do that. And this mini-guide will give you a place to start, it will give you a clean slate so you can move forward from the overwhelm that money makes you feel. All you have to do to get this mini-guide is you just need to either — there's two ways! You can either text the word "miniguide" to 33444. That's again, you text the word "miniguide" to 33444. That is only available for those of you in the United States — sorry! But for anybody else, either the US or outside of the US, you can also go to the show notes that can be found by going to JenHemphill.com/21.

So that is a wrap for today. I wanted to thank Mabel, or as I say, "Mabelle", for being with us, for being so transparent, for sharing her story. And just be sure to go the website, to JenHemphill.com/21 so you can find where it is that you can find her at and get to know her better.

And thanks for listening, and I will talk to you next Thursday.

[END]

P.S. THANK YOU for listening!

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